Hi Sirhc (And Everybody Else)

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rebelwireless
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Re: Hi Sirhc (And Everybody Else)

Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:18 am

+1 for burst. We burst out downloads on the head end. There is a 'low hum' of throughput from hundreds of devices just grabbing updates, or keeping sessions open, plus p2p/torrents etc. Keeping a lower sustained speed with a burst keeps these in check while still giving the feel of a 20Mbps link.

I find that I have no problem overselling the channel 5:1+. ~70Mbps on 20Mhz on M gear allows for about 15-20x 20Mbps residential clients if using burst. I prefer to load RocketM radios to <=20 else the performance starts to drop. I sell those plans as 10Mbps plans (instant speeds up to 20Mbps!) I set the sustained at 6Mbps, enough for HD netflix and a little left for browsing. Just have to watch for heavy users and address them individually.

I find that the heaviest users aren't doing anything interactive so I can usually watch what kind of traffic is burning up bits and call them up to see if we can work something out on shaping it etc. usually I can offer them a faster non-burst rate at night in exchange for a lower sustained during the day/prime time.

I don't think there is any reason to keep speeds down <=5Mbps based on your ability to deliver that from the tower, only if your upstream is slow/expensive.

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Re: Hi Sirhc (And Everybody Else)

Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:44 pm

What are you guyz using as shaping device at headend ?

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sirhc
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Re: Hi Sirhc (And Everybody Else)

Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:49 pm

jjonsson wrote:What are you guyz using as shaping device at headend ?


http://www.etinc.com

The coder is a real jerk sometimes but his product is nice!

He is a smart guy but does not liked to be bothered by mere mortals.

VERY EXPENSIVE!
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jjonsson
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Re: Hi Sirhc (And Everybody Else)

Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:55 am

Is his product using FQ_Codel ?

And why not just shape in the CPE ?
https://help.ubnt.com/hc/en-us/articles ... MAX-Radios

That way the fast traffic never enters your network. It stays at customer and is shaped before entering the backbone.

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rebelwireless
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Re: Hi Sirhc (And Everybody Else)

Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:36 pm

jjonsson wrote:Is his product using FQ_Codel ?

And why not just shape in the CPE ?
https://help.ubnt.com/hc/en-us/articles ... MAX-Radios

That way the fast traffic never enters your network. It stays at customer and is shaped before entering the backbone.


CPE shaping only handles client uploads gracefully. Dropped packets traverse the network all the way to the CPE and then get dropped AFTER they've eaten up all that airtime. This isn't so bad really, but it lacks a key feature.

How do you let customers burst, yet shape a saturated uplink? You really need a head-end queue, at least a general fair-queue of some sort.



I'm using Mikrotik w/ simple queues now. I don't like it. Flaky software these days. Moving away from 'tik across the board.

I'm waiting for EdgeOS v1.8 to stabilize to do some more testing. Really want to see what throughput I can get on ERL and ERPro. I already partition the network with separate head-end routers (in VRRP for failover).

Was considering a pair of ERPro in VRRP as pure routers. Then a dedicated ERPro or ERL for each subnet or maybe a couple subnet depending on capabilities. VRRP these into pairs for some redundancy.

...if I can get decent performance out of an EdgeRouter...

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jjonsson
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Re: Hi Sirhc (And Everybody Else)

Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:57 pm

I'm working on FQ_Codel in EdgeRouter. All my sites have EdgeRouters. I just want to figure out a way to enable shaping correct for each AP (maybe some VLAN), so that it's not getting congested. Also I don't know how hard the EdgeRouters can be pushed before FQ_Codel is eating up all CPU and it all falls apart.

I know a guy that has FQ_Codel in EdgeRouter v1.7 enabled.
His primary link to Internet is 40/40 Mbit/s. Even when fully saturated latency is low because of FQ_Codel. It's working very well.

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Re: Hi Sirhc (And Everybody Else)

Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:49 am

My bench tests with fc_codel on ERL are maxing out at about 50Mbps. You turn off all hardware accell when you enable fc_codel so the weak CPU really stands out.

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Re: Hi Sirhc (And Everybody Else)

Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:47 am

I have given up on the shaping part on the EdgeRouters. The CPU is simply not powerful enough. When you enable shaping it maxes out around 50-60 Mbps. Since I'm running AC equipment and 100/100 Mbps plans, shaping with EdgeRouter is a no go.


Actually I don't need shaping. My backbone is 5X on 50 MHz channel and 67/33, AF5 on 80 MHz (50/30 MHz) and AF24, for some small sites PowerBeam 5AC-ISO...

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Re: Hi Sirhc (And Everybody Else)

Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:52 am

On EdgeRouter Lite, 50-60Mbps is the best I can push. The EdgeRouterX can get up around 100Mbps. (a single client, no idea how this would be effected as packet rate increases)

I'm not pushing anywhere near 100Mbps plans so this is working on my test branch (UCRM, Edgerouters, AC radios).

I'm not sure where ubiquiti is going with these. They're even supporting RouterBoards for shaping in UCRM, that seems very odd if they were planning on releasing a head-end router capable of handling edge-shaping.

I don't think I'm going to get into the very high speed plans. Local cable company just launched 300x25 service.

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Re: Hi Sirhc (And Everybody Else)

Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:57 am

For what it's worth I shape my customers download/upload at the Edge with our router (x86 Mtik). Also each customer CPE is shaped at the CPE for upload traffic.

On the edge I use the Mtik Firewall Mangle+Address lists to mark each connection by the customer's IP address and then use a Queue Tree to control the rates. Each customer is assigned into the speed category they are purchasing. Then I use PCQ w/burst for my download/upload queues.

Works quite well and I have been doing this setup since around 2012.
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